Should Mainstream Media Platform MAGA Thinkers?
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—Intellectual honesty vs. partisan loyalty
— Nick Catoggio: Which Republicans are deserting Trump? And why?
Steve Hayes is CEO and editor of The Dispatch, based in Annapolis, Maryland. Prior to co-founding the company in 2019, he worked at The Weekly Standard for 18 years, covering Washington, politics, and national security. Steve is the author of two New York Times bestsellers. He also worked as a contributor at CNN and Fox News, and currently serves as a political analyst at NBC News. When Steve is not focused on The Dispatch, he’s probably traveling with his family, grilling, or riding his mountain bike.
Jonah Goldberg is editor-in-chief and co-founder of The Dispatch, based in Washington, D.C. Prior to that, enormous lizards roamed the Earth. More immediately prior to that, Jonah spent two decades at National Review, where he was a senior editor, among other things. He is also a bestselling author, longtime columnist for the Los Angeles Times, commentator for CNN, and a senior fellow at the American Enterprise Institute. When he is not writing the G-File or hosting The Remnant podcast, he finds real joy in family time, attending to his dogs and cat, and blaming Steve Hayes for various things.
Kevin D. Williamson is national correspondent at The Dispatch and is based in Virginia. Prior to joining the company in 2022, he spent 15 years as a writer and editor at National Review, worked as the theater critic at the New Criterion, and had a long career in local newspapers. He is also a writer in residence at the Competitive Enterprise Institute. When Kevin is not reporting on the world outside Washington for his Wanderland newsletter, you can find him at the rifle range or reading a book about literally almost anything other than politics.
The podcast transcription below was generated using artificial intelligence and may include occasional errors or misspellings.
[intro music playing] Welcome to the Dispatch Podcast. I'm Steve Hayes. On today's roundtable, we take a big-picture look at this moment in the news media, and specifically at the exit of conservative columnist Ross Douthat from the New York Times to CBS News 60 Minutes. Who should replace him? Does the mainstream media have a responsibility to platform pro-Trump views? Then we each share a time in our careers as reporters and commentators where we got an issue wrong, or if you're Jonah, the many times you got issues wrong. And finally, not worth your time, advice we wish we had taken seriously. I'm joined today by The Dispatch's Editor-in-chief, Jonah Goldberg, and National Correspondent, Kevin Williams. Let's dive in. [music playing] Gentlemen, thanks for joining us today. I wanna start with a discussion about the media, which I know both of you, it's your favorite topic. You are always emailing me before we start, "Steve, can we do more on the media, more navel-gazing?" And I steadfastly refuse. But I'm giving in in this instance because I think there's actually an interesting debate to be had, or discussion to be had, at any rate. Jonah, you wrote on Friday about Ross Douthat's departure from the New York Times. He is headed to CBS News to join 60 Minutes, and there has been much discussion about his departure, what it means for 60 Minutes, what it means for CBS News, what it means for the New York Times. There have been many social media discussions about the need for the New York Times to go get another conservative columnist, to go get another MAGA-friendly columnist, to go get another new right columnist. And I will say, I'm, I'm not terribly interested in that part of the discussion, you know, who should replace Ross Douthat at the New York Times.
If anybody, right? I mean, like, the whole idea that he's gotta be replaced with another columnist or with a conservative is also kind of a-- There's a lot of question-begging there, too. But anyway, go on. I'm sorry.
A lot of question-begging. Well, let me ask a starter question, and we can sort of move from there. Noah Hickey, our producer, posed a question based on part of your G file on Friday. Jonah, you had written, "MAGA media is already curdling like a dumpster full of expired milk. Picking a columnist bound to this fading moment, the MAGA moment, strikes me as folly, and not just because I think there's precious little about this current moment worth defending." One of the things you hear is that the New York Times has some obligation, either out of fairness or i-in the interest of having a full debate. There's an argument to be made that they have an interest to hire a MAGA-friendly columnist for business reasons. I guess the question I wanna ask you, and I'll start with you, Jonah, and then move to you, Kevin.
Jonah, if you were the CEO of the New York Times right now-
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